Chapters:
00:00 Introduction
03:00 The difference between St. Mark’s College and Corpus Christi College
05:44 Where Corpus Christi students end up going and the impact they are making
14:50 Scholarship opportunities
16:05 The challenge of not receiving government funding
17:56 The importance of creating a positive space
19:55 The vision of Corpus Christi College and St. Mark’s College
22:45 The impact of the international student cuts
28:48 Prepping students to go to the “next level”
30:18 How to spread the word about Corpus Christi College
36:40 The Good News story
39:12 Why students should consider Corpus Christi College and/or St. Mark’s College
45:00 How lives are transformed by Catholic Education
48:10 Outro
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Would you move your whole family for the right school?The positive impact of Catholic post-secondary education is evident at Corpus Christi College and St. Mark’s College. In this episode, host Troy Van Vliet chats with Dr. Gerry Turcotte, President of Corpus Christi College and Principal of St. Mark’s College. An experienced post-secondary educator and administrator, Dr. Turcotte shares his insights on the unique offerings of these institutions, the importance of Catholic education, and how the two colleges are forming disciples. This is an enlightening discussion that highlights the beauty and significance of Catholic post-secondary education.
Transcript:
[00:00:00] Intro: Welcome to Catholic Education Matters, the podcast that celebrates the beauty of Catholic education, highlighting excellence in academics, athletics, and the transformative power of faith. Join us as we share the stories of those making a lasting impact on Catholic education. Let’s begin.
[00:00:23] Hello everyone, thank you for joining us here today. I am really excited with this afternoon’s guest. Today we have Doctor Gerry Turcotte from St. Mark’s and Corpus Christi College. I’m going to take a moment if I may to read some of your bio just so that I can give all the viewers a quick intro and tell everybody a little bit about yourself. First of all, an experienced post secondary educator and administrator,
[00:00:57] Doctor Gerry Turcotte has been President and Vice chancellor of St. Mary’s University in Calgary for eleven years and before this was associate provost and executive dean at the College of Arts and Sciences at the University of Notre Dame in Australia, both Catholic universities. He is the past chair of the Association of Catholic Colleges and Universities in Canada and vice chair of the Council of Presidents of Alberta. Under his leadership at St. Mary’s University, the school’s enrollment grew by over 100% leading
[00:01:35] St. Mary’s to become one of the fastest growing universities in Alberta. To support this growth, Doctor. Turcotte played a major role in securing significant government and donor funding while also leading two successful strategic planning initiatives. He’s a graduate of McGill University, that’s where he’s got his bachelor’s, the University of Ottawa with a master’s and the University Sydney with his PhD, which he attended on a Commonwealth Fellowship. He was awarded major teaching awards in Australia including local, state and national recognitions for excellence in teaching.
[00:02:13] He was also awarded the Governor General’s Award for Canadian students in 2011 and the Queen’s Diamond Jubilee Medal in 2013. Wow! What a background there in education. Doctor, thank you for joining us here at Catholic Education Matters and like I said, we’re honored to have you here today and to talk to us a little bit about St. Mark’s College and Corpus Christi, where you are both president and principal.
[00:02:43] Dr. Gerry Turcotte: Yeah, well thank you so much for inviting me.
[00:02:45] Troy Van Vliet: Of course, of course. So about we start off with talking a little bit about St. Mark’s and Corpus Christi. A lot of us don’t know the difference or how that setup is both up at UBC and the endowment lands there. Part of UBC I suppose you can say or you’re affiliated in some We’re affiliated with. Okay, there you go.
[00:03:07] Dr. Gerry Turcotte: you go. So I think the confusion is very fair because I know when I was being hired, I had to spend a bit of time to figure out the relationship between the two colleges. But essentially the easiest way to understand it is really Corpus Christi is the undergraduate liberal arts part. So it’s a standalone college and it’s been going for twenty five years. And St. Mark’s is the Graduate School of Theology and it’s been going for over seventy years.
[00:03:32] Troy Van Vliet: Over seventy?
[00:03:33] Dr. Gerry Turcotte: Over seventy, So between the two, almost one hundred years of Catholic education at UBC, and we have our own land there and our own space. And however, we also have a great affiliation agreement with UBC, which means that our students can, if they’re attending through us, they can use all of the UBC facilities. So from the gyms to the library, to all those resources. So we always talk about it being the best of both worlds.
[00:03:59] Troy Van Vliet: The best of both worlds. Love it. That’s great. So how many students would be on campus there at any given time?
[00:04:08] Dr. Gerry Turcotte: So we try to cap between 405 students. Our goal is really to keep the undergraduate community small because our brand is really small class sizes. So the goal for us is never to be a super sized university. We kind of are a boutique brand. So Corpus Christi offers the first two years, full two years of university.
[00:04:33] So sometimes people aren’t sure what it does. Sometimes they think it’s a community college. It’s a university and it does the 100% transferable courses, full two years of university. So students will often will start with us, if they do their two years, they get an Associate of Arts degree, and then they transfer, the bulk of our students transfer to UBC, but many go to SFU, to McGill, to The States and so forth. So we do those first two years versus
[00:05:04] St. Mark’s, which does really the Graduate School of Theology. So that’s a different kind of focus that’s really looking at lay formation, training for deacons, for seminarians. It offers three master’s degrees and so forth. So two very, very different pieces. And they’re kind of joined by a BA in theology and culture.
[00:05:25] So that BA does the first two years at Corpus Christi and you do your next two years at St. Mark’s. And those kids go to UBC to get their B. Ed. Degree. And they are 100% employed by the Catholic school district because you have teachers for Catholic school system that have Catholic formation, which is not always the case.
[00:05:49] Troy Van Vliet: So what percentage of the students do you think would end up in the Catholic education system, like in terms of being teachers?
[00:06:00] Dr. Gerry Turcotte: Being teachers, it’s a small percentage and it’s not well enough known. And this is where I hope certainly we can work with the Catholic schools to get that pathway better understood. Because my experience in Australia and in Alberta was that a lot of the kids who go to the secular universities to go teach in the Catholic school system often have like half a course in Catholic stuff, and that’s their foundation. And then so it’s really then becomes a school that has to train up the teachers and so forth. So here you have a fantastic program that makes sure they have a full Catholic formation before they even go into the schools.
[00:06:37] The program that we offer, even before they get into the education program, already has a pre practicum. So it’s a fantastic opportunity for students, but it’s just not well known. So we have very low numbers. The bulk of our students who come through Corpus Christi go psychology or they go into arts at UBC or at SFU with a very popular pathway into the Sauder School of Business as well. Oh, So it’s a little bit of everything.
[00:07:09] Troy Van Vliet: Yeah. Wow. So quite a base that you can get our students grounded in the first couple of years and they end up, you know, so what percentage of Corpus Christi Students would end up in St. Mark’s? Is there very many
[00:07:29] Dr. Gerry Turcotte: or No, again, it’s a small path because it’s not a well known program. The majority of our kids do the Associate of Arts degree and then transfer to another institution something like that. But I guess what’s really different, the way we kind of think about it is the value add. So first of all, the classes are small, deliberately so, which obviously puts a burden on us in terms of resourcing it.
[00:07:58] My context for when I was in Australia, my smallest class was 400 kids. So if I recognize the kids because they were in trouble, right? So that’s not what we want as the experience for our students. Many of the students, for example, who are doing a business class with us have the same professor who teaches it at solder and teaches it for us, but they have 120 kids in the solder class and 30 in ours. So it’s not one is better than the other, it’s just a different model.
[00:08:23] And we really focus on, I guess, supporting the whole person. So obviously the faith piece is there. Not everybody is Catholic, not everybody is looking for the faith education, but the values base is there and it underpins everything we do. So students who are doing their degree have an opportunity to supplement what they’re doing with very, in fact, an award winning leadership program that often sets them up with mentors, programs that have, in some cases have become kind of ongoing career path for some of our students. They participate in programs like MAP to System run by Oxford University, where our kids have to participate when they’re in their first and second year, but they’re competing against PhD students from all the universities in Canada.
[00:09:09] But just to put in context, of that support, a couple of years ago, our kids not only beat all the Canadian universities, but ended up at Oxford and won the undergraduate award. So, top 17 universities out of 1,000 worldwide for our tiny little college. So that’s really what we lean into, what we specialize in. It’s not just that you have top flight academic courses, which are equivalent and accepted and transferable, etcetera, but it’s also the whole experience that comes with it. So the additional support, because we’re smaller, a lot of our students have internships as well that align with some of the interests that they’re in.
[00:09:49] So for those who work in communications, they have internships in our communications programs. Those who are working and very interested in fundraising, have had internships in our fundraising department and so forth, or marketing and so forth. So we really look at the value add because education isn’t just those courses that you do, those have to be the very best academically, but it’s also the value system that comes with it. Right.
[00:10:17] Troy Van Vliet: My oldest daughter, she just graduated from SGP-two last year. So, she’s in her first year at Catholic Pacific College at Trinity Western. And same thing, it’s tiny. Well, smaller. Real humble beginnings.
[00:10:34] But you know what? That’s just been perfect for her. Although it’s attached to the larger University of Trinity Western, which is great. But yeah, the sense of community and just her being able to develop the whole person has just been a great experience with her thus far. I’m assuming at Corpus Christi, same thing.
[00:10:59] Actually one of her closest friends graduated with her from SJP2 as well and she is in her first year of Corpus Christi this So last year was our first year that we’re contributing students to your college.
[00:11:15] Dr. Gerry Turcotte: Hopefully that grows and grows. It’s so important.
[00:11:18] Troy Van Vliet: We need relationships like this that need to be fostered between our between our high schools, but also between our universities, our elementary schools with our high schools. We need to be promoted. We’re working on that right now with our high school, but especially with we need Catholic Pacific College to grow. We need St. Mark’s and Corpus Christi to grow and be real anchors in the community because they’re producing great kids.
[00:11:44] Dr. Gerry Turcotte: No, absolutely. You know, if I just use the example of the kids who go from us into, for example, solder, What we’re told by the Sodder School of Business is that our kids tend to focus more on philanthropy when they get there. So even their focus on business is directed towards community. So, values do matter and they shape the path that you take. And we’re in such a toxic secular culture right now that to create a positive space where your faith can flourish, it’s not easy to do.
[00:12:23] It’s under siege. And so this is why we kind of lean into how it matters at every section of your life. And you see that impact everywhere in community. That’s why our kids volunteer in just extraordinary numbers. So they’re down in the shelter with me and my team, they prepare food during the week, they stock a food bank that we have on campus.
[00:12:49] Troy Van Vliet: Love to hear that.
[00:12:50] Dr. Gerry Turcotte: It’s values based, if this is not what Jesus asked us to do, don’t know what is.
[00:12:55] Troy Van Vliet: Yeah, well, we have that at St. John Paul as well, the social justice club, which that term social justice has been hijacked by so many groups and people don’t even realize it was the Catholic community that invented that. They invented social giving back like in massive ways, taking care of the poor has been a motto forever.
[00:13:19] Dr. Gerry Turcotte: As has education. I mean, the Catholic church created universities, right? The very first universities and it been ever thus. So, I think it’s something we should be proud of. But I think too, we need to do more to promote our own institutions within the faith. That’s not a criticism.
[00:13:42] When I got here, everyone kept saying to me, Oh, Corpus Christi and St. Mark’s are the best kept secret. I just want it to not be a secret. And we just have to do more to let people know it’s there.
[00:13:51] Troy Van Vliet: It’s true. It’s true. Question, can they play sports at UBC?
[00:13:57] Dr. Gerry Turcotte: So we actually have an affiliation with UBC. So the coach has been, Coach Blake has been an amazing advocate. So some of our students have been on the football team and so we have a kind of program where they can participate as well.
[00:14:10] Troy Van Vliet: Oh great, okay. When I went to UBC I played football there too and I didn’t even know about St. Mark’s College at the time when I went. That was a long time ago, but it was there.
[00:14:19] Dr. Gerry Turcotte: Wasn’t seventy years ago.
[00:14:20] Troy Van Vliet: No, no, wasn’t seventy years ago. So it was definitely there when I was But yeah, it is too much of a secret, you know. And I went to a Catholic high school and didn’t even know about it there.
[00:14:32] Dr. Gerry Turcotte: No, that’s exactly right. And again, it’s not a criticism, that’s on us. We have to do better on promoting what we do and making everyone aware of just kind of the opportunities that are there.
[00:14:48] It’s a first class academic institution. Like we have the best profs, we focus on outstanding academic programs. We have an incredible array of scholarships too for high academic achievers, our circle of fellows, for example. But we also have scholarships for individuals who for financial reasons or socioeconomic positioning might not be able to access education. And so we have very generous scholarships too that our community have made possible, literally hundreds of thousands of dollars to support kids.
[00:15:24] 100% of our fundraising goes into student support. So again, this is not the best recipe for a tiny college that gets no government funding. But again, that’s why we’re there. We’re a not for profit, even though we’re treated by government like the for profits and a lot of the punitive rules that apply to for profits shouldn’t apply to us. And we just have to absorb those extra costs, you know?
[00:15:48] But we don’t have any of those advantages that the for profits have. But again, it’s our mission, right? That’s why we’re there. Be accessible and
[00:15:59] Troy Van Vliet: Why do you think there is that, I’ll call it pushback from our governments regarding that in terms of how you’re treated, not as a nonprofit? Why do you think that is?
[00:16:11] Dr. Gerry Turcotte: I think it’s hard to say. I think what I was surprised moving to Vancouver was to see how aggressively anti faith a lot of areas are, which I didn’t expect. And I think from a government point of view, they just want to be careful with their base. So they’re kind of trying to have their cake and eat it too, so they might be supportive. And I know from a fact speaking to individual government figures, even many of them are people of faith, but they don’t want to do it publicly in case it erodes their base. You know, it’s that
[00:16:47] Troy Van Vliet: It’s really sad that people aren’t willing to stand up and actually profess their faith in a good way and you know, remind the West that the West was built on Judeo Christian values. I say that so often through the podcast and I’m sure people are sick of hearing that from me, but it’s true. Those values that we have today, even if you’re not of faith at all, you realize our legal system, so much of it, everything has been based on our laws, they had to come from somewhere and it came from those Judeo Christian values originally. But they’re just kind of being tossed to the side and as they are getting tossed to the side or if our faith, religion in general gets tossed to the side, as that happens other things start crumbling, too, because all of a sudden anything goes. And we’re kind of in that bit of a mess right now, even while across our country, federally and provincially, where we’ve just kind of said, well, we don’t want to offend anybody, so anything goes. But that in itself is offensive.
[00:17:55] Dr. Gerry Turcotte: Yeah. I think for us, you know, what is critical, even not just to colleges, I think in Catholic education is to create a positive space, right? A space where individuals can really shine and find their own authenticity. And to me, this goes right back to the Catholic core. It’s about the dignity of the human person.
[00:18:16] And it’s so easily eroded by social media, which let’s face it, our young people are overwhelmed by. It’s hard to compete with something that is kind of a 24/7 indoctrination. So what’s the answer to that? Well, you can stand up and you can create all kinds of strict rules. You can be cranky, or you can create a really loving environment that demonstrates the kind of impact that an education like what we offer opens society up and breaks down boundaries and so forth. And I think that’s kind of how we approach it. Everybody feels valued, you know.
[00:18:55] Troy Van Vliet: And that’s based on our Catholic faith. It’s not something your university is just created on its own or anything, it’s based on our faith.
[00:19:04] Dr. Gerry Turcotte: I wish I had the copyright on it and could claim credit, but some young teacher called Jesus cut there first. So he has the copyright, but you know what, he shares it freely. So why not use it?
[00:19:29] Troy Van Vliet: A great way of putting that. I love it. So what is the vision now with Corpus Christi and St. Mark’s College? What you seeing? What are the next sort of big goals that you’re trying to accomplish? Like we talk about marketing and we spoke earlier with Doctor. John Martens and he talked a little bit about that too. We got to get the word out more best kept secret here. And marketing within the schools, within the high schools.
[00:19:48] Mean, like we would love to see that at our new high school to say like here is your path right here. You can go right from here, right to your Catholic college and away you go. So what is the ultimate vision? What would you like to see happen?
[00:20:04] Dr. Gerry Turcotte: Well, I guess we have a number of goals. One is certainly that Corpus has to grow its degrees. Like we would like to have a full BA. We have a BA Theology and Culture, but it’s very specifically kind of framed by the government. So we would like a regular interdisciplinary BA.
[00:20:22] And we’re working towards that. And that’s probably two, three years away if all goes well in terms of our accreditation. Down the road, we’re going to merge the two colleges. So this confusing piece is less confusing and just become the St. Mark’s, but at the same time, the goal is to build more resiliency for our programs.
[00:20:43] We certainly want more Catholic high school students coming. At the moment, we’re seeing a really interesting thing where the public schools are now flocking towards us and not so much the Catholic schools. So we don’t totally understand why that shift has taken place over the last two years.
[00:21:02] Troy Van Vliet: Is it Catholic in the public schools or is it
[00:21:06] Dr. Gerry Turcotte: That’s harder to know. Like you’re not really allowed to ask that kind of specific
[00:21:12] Troy Van Vliet: But you can’t find out if they’re
[00:21:14] Dr. Gerry Turcotte: pressing It’s they self declare, would know and you would know it just by, I mean, as we were talking about before recording, we had Ash Wednesday Mass and it was absolutely packed to the rafters for three masses in a row, and it was all young kids. So there’s obviously passion and interest there. A lot of kids from different faith groups also come to us because as some have said to us, faith is on the table, So at least we can be safe here, whereas it’s toxic everywhere else. So, for me, like personal goal, we have a plan for a $10,000,000 extension on the building, but we need a lead donor and we’re tiny, so we need to get that going and started. It would be a fantastic initiative, but basically to grow and to double the size of our probably a
[00:22:07] Troy Van Vliet: student body, not
[00:22:09] Dr. Gerry Turcotte: much more than that because again, our brand, our specialization is a small class size that attention to the individual, right? And that can’t change.
[00:22:18] Troy Van Vliet: So what would be the intake like each year? How many could you take or where would you be maxed out before you’re saying, you know, we’re full, we can’t take any more of
[00:22:28] Dr. Gerry Turcotte: Well, think if we got to 600, seven hundred kids, we would be full.
[00:22:33] Troy Van Vliet: In one year, in first year?
[00:22:34] Dr. Gerry Turcotte: All up,
[00:22:37] Troy Van Vliet: over two So, but in first year, how many would you be able to do?
[00:22:41] Dr. Gerry Turcotte: I think we could still handle it for sure. And where we’ve been hit hard just really in the last month and a half is through the international student cuts that the federal government has put through. These were really in my view, so I will divorce from any other parties and say that these were really ill conceived changes that were made for all the wrong reasons that have really negatively impacted Canada. Now we’ve seen international enrollments to applications to Canada dropped by 45% because Canada has been made toxic in the world because of the federal government policies. But they’re rapidly changing rules around those policies have caused chaos.
[00:23:31] We had students who were accepted under the rules, they changed the rules, the kid had to pull out, go back to Japan, and then they said, Oh, we’ll give them grace period, too late, kids like this is amateur hour. But then they imposed international caps and assigned them to the different provinces. Those are administered by the province. And in our case, the province has essentially taken away all of our international students. So this is a shocking Wall.
[00:24:00] Virtually, well, they’ve given us 11 international places, which is absurd. So it’s a blow because it came with no warning, no time to pivot institutionally, and that’s that’s us, the international piece is really important because they’re built into the way we support them culturally, the way we support interculturality. So, one of the things I think that’s really tough in the North American system is we have a type of cultural myopia sometimes, and we need the international framework to show us that the world is beyond just our own patch and the complexity of the world. Look at the conflicts right now. If you don’t understand what’s going on in the world, you don’t understand what’s happening in Canada.
[00:24:42] So for us, the international community is so important because it brings that perspective, it brings those different cultural groups. So we have amazing Catholic kids from India, but it’s a totally different story about how they practice their faith you know, and the challenges they face. Or kids who come from countries where it’s toxic or illegal to have your faith, you know, and to see how they blossom or how they’re supported. Or kids who have come from no faith and who suddenly discover their faith. And we don’t indoctrinate, that’s not our role.
[00:25:16] We are there to create a safe, dynamic, amazing space. But that interculturality is really important, and it creates a wiser citizen, it expands your worldview. And I don’t think we’re going to solve the world’s problems by having kids who are insular. We need to understand the world, right?
[00:25:36] Troy Van Vliet: Yeah. That’s important. I never thought of it that way in terms of the international students and what they’re bringing to us as well. That’s huge actually.
[00:25:47] Dr. Gerry Turcotte: And it has to be done right because one of the problems that we’re seeing right now is the international kids are often being brought because they’re cash cows. And this is kind of what the government maybe is trying to solve, but they’ve done it the wrong way, this blunt instrument kind of approach. But in fact, if it’s done with integrity, it’s a celebration of both cultures and it builds both cultures. And it creates incredible relationships when those kids go home, right? They’re taking a view of Canada as a place that’s accepting, that’s democratic, that’s dynamic to their home countries, which is a promotion, and we see more kids come because of that.
[00:26:30] Troy Van Vliet: People may immigrate eventually or do business their country internationally.
[00:26:36] Dr. Gerry Turcotte: Yep. It’s a win win. And so we’ve been a bit shortsighted, but at least our conscience is clear that we have always treated the international student as an individual. We’ve tried to celebrate their cultures. We’ve had Lunar New Year feast where those kids have cooked food for the college, Dilwali and so forth.
[00:26:58] So it’s also about respecting other people’s cultures. But what happens when you respect someone’s culture? They respect yours. And it creates the understanding.
[00:27:06] Troy Van Vliet: The understanding, the curiosity then as well. Catholicism is a religion that didn’t started with one person who recruited 12 guys and the way it went. So it’s funny, I know when I hear that some people say, well, you know what, there wouldn’t be religion if you weren’t born into it, know, you wouldn’t be Catholic. It’s like, well, a minute, that’s not how it started. If we go back far enough
[00:27:32] Dr. Gerry Turcotte: Jesus wasn’t born Catholic.
[00:27:34] Troy Van Vliet: So you know what I mean?
[00:27:35] Dr. Gerry Turcotte: Like, this is all about, you know, learning and relationship and community. There was a thing, if you look, and this is where I get really upset when I see people misquoting the Bible and especially misquoting Jesus for really what I think are sinister purposes. Jesus didn’t turn his back on anybody. And he didn’t say you’re better because you’re more high ranking. It was literally the opposite.
[00:28:00] He was in the margins. And again, this is why I’m really moved by our Corpus Christi and St. Mark’s kids that come with me to the shelters who care about who’s in the margin, who don’t judge. That’s got to matter and it’s going to make a difference going forward.
[00:28:17] Troy Van Vliet: Absolutely huge. Yes. And I’m so proud. I am proud of our school. Have to slip that in there too, just in what they’ve done for the homeless.
[00:28:23] My youngest daughter, she’s in this sandwich making club and they get delivered every week. They go out and they give sandwiches to the homeless or feed the homeless. And we’ve got the soup kitchen that goes on right in our school right now, which the kids see. They set up the tables for every week. Know, they’re in there.
[00:28:43] That’s massive. And that’s what our faith is all about. It’s teaching that, you know, giving back to those less fortunate. So that’s really, I’m really happy to hear that about Corpus Christi and St. Mark’s.
[00:29:01] Dr. Gerry Turcotte: And I guess the thing, you know, which is also important is the way St. Mark’s kind of carries the next step. So a lot of the works that we do, we have programs funded by the archdiocese that support lay ministry. So we have a lot of people who are working in their parishes, or we have a program for deacons, we have a program for teachers. So this is also about giving those skills and that support, and sometimes just that community to those people who are at the front lines, as opposed to the students who are going to the front lines.
[00:29:34] We have all these amazing people who are at the front lines, are in the parishes, are in soup kitchens, are in administration in different areas of Catholic life, or who are teachers, or who want to become teachers or educational assistants. And so, the certificate programs that we have, many of them are funded, the master’s degrees that we have, this is all preparing that next level really of the Catholic citizen, right? Who just enriches the message of God that they bring to the community. It’s very cool. It’s a very cool partnership.
[00:30:14] Troy Van Vliet: That’s beautiful. So what does marketing look like? What can we do to help get more kids going to Corpus Christi?
[00:30:24] Dr. Gerry Turcotte: Well, have an amazing marketing team at the moment of one, because our lead is on maternity leave. God bless her, this is fantastic. So it’s hard, like we do everything ourselves. And it’s hard as you know, to get just the same amount of space if we’re doing sometimes like a general kind of school exhibition, and you’re in the with all of the big places. So for me, again, we’ve been really impressed with how CISPA have been supporting us and the principals, so that would be one of the biggest things, like invite us into the schools, let us speak to the kids, give us a chance that the big institutions just have armies of recruiters and millions, not thousands, millions of dollars of advertising revenue.
[00:31:16] So we’re competing against Goliath. So anything that can be done to kind of get the word out there to promote our events makes a big difference. BC Catholic have been superb in carrying our stories and every little bit helps. And we have to do more internally too, like our team, they’re amazing, but again, our recruitment team is tiny. So getting to all of the schools, it’s hard, but invite us for talks.
[00:31:47] I’ve done a lot of talks in schools on reconciliation and so forth. In September to December, we’ll have the St. John’s Bible. So we’re hoping to take that to different schools. St.
[00:31:58] John’s Bible is the first handwritten, hand illuminated Bible commissioned by Benedictine monks in over five hundred years. We’ll have one of the additions that we can take around to schools. And it is, I’ve had the seven volumes before at my previous institution. It is a great way for young kids who are kind of figuring out how the religion classes work to have a six foot by eight foot Bible that’s fully illuminated, that’s also using contemporary images from their own world to remind them that the Bible is not an artifact, that it’s a living document. And I think that’s what we have to get better at doing too.
[00:32:40] It’s talking about our faith as it’s not a textbook from before. It’s a guidebook for now.
[00:32:47] Troy Van Vliet: Yeah, it truly is. It truly is. We spoke, I was speaking with Doctor. Martens about that as well in terms of the Bible and the catechism and bringing that together, how that’s something that we in our faith, in the Catholic faith, we’ve got that. You know, if the Bible is kind of like our, well, call it a rule book, but there’s a lot of interpretation that needs to come out of that.
[00:33:17] We need some guidance. I was saying that I’m doing the Bible in a Year podcast right now with Father Mike Schmitz and you know if you didn’t have him as a guide reading through it, I mean just reading the Bible is a wonderful thing, but there’s a lot of questions you’ve got coming out of that. And it’s so nice to hear that especially at St. Mark’s that you know, delving into that and explaining that these theology classes are there that are available for those that are curious in their faith, which should be all of us.
[00:33:51] Dr. Gerry Turcotte: You know, the graduate student, and we do have, I have to say it’s a little bit unfair because we have unbelievable professors who teach in the theology program, and they are kind of superstars. But I’ve spoken to the graduate kids who do the program because the graduate program is totally online. So we went online during COVID. And then when we brought it back, because they’re all educators or they work in parishes, they said, you know what, the online was really working well. That’s allowed us now to go out to Kamloops to Nelson.
[00:34:22] So it’s just broadened the base, but it’s still delivered in our quintessential student focused way. And to a person, they rave about how this has kind of empowered their faith and improved the way they can communicate the texts because they’re not easy. Over two thousand years of analysis has gone into these documents. It takes work, but it’s also incredibly rich, It’s incredibly rewarding. So again, I would urge anybody who has that kind of passion to explore those programs.
[00:35:05] And where it’s especially interesting is you can do the first three courses, can then raise it into a certificate, you can articulate that, but eventually very quickly you have a master’s degree, and it’s a fantastic way to do it. It improves your job, sometimes your income too, depending on where you work. Yeah. But boy, the skill set that you have right from that in a complex world too. So we do try to do this in the context of the complicated world that we’re in so that you know how to talk about your faith.
[00:35:37] Yeah. Like that’s not easy either.
[00:35:39] Troy Van Vliet: Just talking about your faith and also how to live your faith just in general, because I think a lot of us don’t realize that we need that to be able to navigate our way through life, which going to Mass every week is great and it’s a form of worship that we need to do, but there’s so much more to learn, like so much more to learn And all of that extra education will help you navigate through all of the challenges and goodness knows we have so many. There’s a lot happening in our world right now.
[00:36:15] Dr. Gerry Turcotte: No kidding.
[00:36:16] Troy Van Vliet: A lot of big, crazy changes and crazy sort of battles in one form or another that are going on, in governments and philosophies and the left versus the right, the right versus the left and everything in between. And yet we’re all one people, we all got to try and get along and to have that guidance from our faith is so important, especially in today’s world.
[00:36:44] Dr. Gerry Turcotte: Yeah, I think one of the issues for me is that because we feel we have to defend the faith because it’s so under siege, we sometimes lean into all the rules, restrictions of this, that, we keep forgetting to lean into the joy of faith, like it is such a good news story and we keep forgetting it. We get into the rules, then that’s what gets picked up, right? And that’s what people focus on. But Jesus was the ultimate rule breaker.
[00:37:16] He reminded us to be open to everybody, you know, like that was the first rule, non negotiable.
[00:37:27] Troy Van Vliet: Yeah, well, we’re all sinners. So let’s start with that.
[00:37:32] Dr. Gerry Turcotte: Pope Francis, opening line, right? I’m a sinner, pray for me. Let’s go from there. And I think that’s what all of us can only hope for, right? That’s when he prays for us, let’s go from there.
[00:37:44] Troy Van Vliet: And that’s a common attack that’s used by those outside the church right now, an attack to the church. It’s like, well, know, the church is this scandal, that scandal, you know, things like that have happened. It’s like, okay, that proves that we’re all people, that we’re all sinners. You know, the church is made up of people. You put a billion people together, there’s going be a lot of scandals in there.
[00:38:06] Dr. Gerry Turcotte: And it’s important for us to recognize it. It’s important for us to fix what was broken. But you don’t destroy all the great work that was done in that process. Like there’s so much all of the social services, all of the hospitals, all of the education, all of that was created by the Catholic church. And were it to be removed, even though it’s so criticized from our Western culture, economies would collapse because we subsidize so much of the educational system, even at the school level, as you know, but nobody really ever wants to talk about that side of things.
[00:38:44] No. But at the same time, look, we’re not in it for that. We’re in it because we believe it’s a critical beautiful mission, right?
[00:38:52] Troy Van Vliet: No. Well, yeah. Media doesn’t report on planes landing safely. Exactly. They love talking about the crashes, know, and all the disasters that are going on in the world.
[00:39:05] So wow. What do you have to say to students right now that are considering where they’re going be going to school next year? Why should they consider Corpus Christi and St. Marks?
[00:39:19] Dr. Gerry Turcotte: So the major reason is that you have an opportunity for, as I said before, the best of both worlds. So you are going to a first rate educational institution, which has not just some of the best professors, but sometimes the same professor from the big institution next door. But you have it in classes that are smaller, where there’s all this other support that comes with it that you don’t normally have. But you also don’t lose anything by the in fact, you have the opportunity to probably participate in more leadership and scholarship and other activities and opportunities than you would if you’re competing with 70,000 students. But you also don’t lose a single step because the degree leads directly into any third year university program.
[00:40:15] So why wouldn’t you be in a place that gives you more support to start? The thing that blows me away too is, we have food in our central space play, there’s cave it’s called, there’s food all the time. So the kids are always congregating there. And when we have what’s called the President’s Barbecue, which is where I kind of do a barbecue for the new students. I’m not kidding, 50%, sixty % of the kids are the ones who have graduated and they’re at UBC, but they still keep coming.
[00:40:47] Troy Van Vliet: They still keep coming back.
[00:40:48] Dr. Gerry Turcotte: And you still see them, they’re still, well, they’re at Mass, but they’re also in Plato’s cave. So it becomes your home away from home. It’s a safe space, but you still have access to all the other advantages of the bigger campus.
[00:41:04] Troy Van Vliet: That’s beautiful.
[00:41:05] Dr. Gerry Turcotte: So it’s not, you know, why should you come? It’s why wouldn’t you come? Yeah. You know, to have that amazing start.
[00:41:11] Troy Van Vliet: Is there housing available or is it just part of the university?
[00:41:15] Dr. Gerry Turcotte: Yeah, part of the university. We have a few places that we’ve negotiated, but not many. And I wouldn’t say that’s an advantage that we offer. It’s point gray, know, UBC is bigger than some small cities. So there’s a lot of student, but again, all the more reason why
[00:41:38] St. Mark’s College building is kind of a safe haven, you that you come in and it’s in the big Mecca, but it’s safe, it’s like a little oasis, the parish is right next door as well. So it’s all together, right?
[00:41:54] Troy Van Vliet: Yeah, that’s St. Mark’s Parish. St. Mark’s Parish. So all of the masses that you’re talking about are held at the parish.
[00:42:00] Yes. So, is the parish that old as well? I guess it must be.
[00:42:05] Dr. Gerry Turcotte: It’s younger because we built the church as part of the partnership. So I think it was St. Ignatius before and then we helped to build it. So we actually have our library, which is one of the best theological libraries incidentally anywhere. And it’s the Ground Floor of the parish.
[00:42:26] So the parish is above it. Yes. That’s where we have our convocations and everything. A lot of our events too are held in the parish. And Father Rob and Father Bill work very closely with our campus minister.
[00:42:40] We have a lot of programs. I guess that would be another thing too, that we have a really active campus ministry. So a bunch of our kids just came back from Montreal on a fully funded faith journey on campus ministry.
[00:42:54] Troy Van Vliet: Nice.
[00:42:55] Dr. Gerry Turcotte: So again, there’s just all these other opportunities that you get to do, right? Would be They’re there in the bigger places, but again, you’re competing with 70,000 kids for those spots. So it’s different.
[00:43:08] Troy Van Vliet: So, is not just a gem of a place to go to school, this hidden gem that we’re talking about. But it’s also a great stepping stone if you’re looking for a pathway into UBC and maybe you think that, you know what, you may not have because it’s difficult to get into UBC as well. Mean, competing with kids from around the world all trying to get in there. This is a perfect path for many to come through.
[00:43:34] Dr. Gerry Turcotte: It’s been very successful and many of our students do go into UBC and excel. So quite a few of our students were also accepted at UBC, but they choose to start with us for all the reasons that have gone through. And then again, they shine. We have students who are working for foreign services now who started under one of our circle of fellows scholarships. Have students, five of them who just came back from Oxford University where they won the map to system.
[00:44:04] Like we have students in all walks of life in all different fields. We have one student I know who’s in business, but his passion is real estate. And one of our board members is one of the top real estate agents in BC. So he’s taken them on as a And so we have mentorships with legal office, government offices, I guess it’s just super cool.
[00:44:30] Troy Van Vliet: I’m going to ask you this. So you’ve been in Catholic education a long time? Yes. I’m not going to ask you how many years but do you have an example of a life, a student that you saw maybe their life turned around in Catholic education or because of Catholic education that they came in and was like, wow, you know, student maybe was going this direction, but you know, they were introduced to Catholic education their life took a turn for the best.
[00:45:04] Dr. Gerry Turcotte: I’ve seen it my whole career. So I’m a working class kid who should never have gone to university whose family said, you shouldn’t go to university because it’s for elites. It’s pure fluke that I ended up at university and then I realized, and I was a very rough, violent high school too, which is what often working class neighborhoods are like. And then I got to university and thought, Oh my gosh, this is not what university, you know, it’s not it’s not the tough world that I came from, and education was valued and so forth. And I kind of flourished there, you know, but that experience of having to work three jobs, to pay because my family was poor reminded me that there were a lot of people and family members included who weren’t going because they couldn’t afford it, or because they were told they had no right to be there.
[00:45:55] And then it kind of became my mission. So when I was in Australia, I worked with a lot of migrant and Aboriginal groups and tried to make sure that there was access for these kids to education. When I was at St. Mary’s, we had a program called Humanities 101, which was free of charge for people who were experiencing homelessness, who were recovered addicts and so forth. And it’s the same thing here, like leaning into opportunities for people like the East End boys and girls, there’s a scholarship for them to have a pathway.
[00:46:28] But over and over again, I’ve seen people whose lives have been kind of transformed by A) being valued. Like we underestimate the importance of one’s dignity. You know, this is what the faith life is. It’s about saying that you matter. Right?
[00:46:47] This is literally what Jesus said that you matter. Not this political process matters, this synagogue matters, this whatever, you matter. And if that’s not something that transforms you as a person, like how many of our kids, especially through social media, have their egos destroyed, their images destroyed, whatever. So for me, what I’ve seen time and time again, our kids coming in that felt hopeless and who have gone on to be leaders. And that doesn’t mean they’re a leader because they’re running at the top 500, although I’m sure some of the kids I’ve taught have done that, but also that you’re leading your community, you’re leading your faith group, what have you, doesn’t matter, but that you believe that you matter.
[00:47:30] Holy moly, what could be better, right? So I don’t have one example because I’ve seen it time and time again. I’ve been brought to tears by students who have come up to me like fifteen years later saying, dude, you changed my life. And like, I didn’t, I taught you one class, but yeah, that class said that I was allowed to be here. And then I went on to the next class and so forth.
[00:47:52] So I think all of us, especially as Catholic educators, that has to be our goal to say, in this moment, in this class, even if it’s a darn statistic class, you matter, you know? And from there that spark is like nothing else.
[00:48:08] Troy Van Vliet: That’s why Catholic education matters. Yep. Hence the name of our show.
[00:48:13] Dr. Gerry Turcotte: Yeah, exactly.
[00:48:14] Troy Van Vliet: That is wonderful. Well, thank you, Doctor Turcotte for coming and enlightening us and telling us more about Corpus Christi and St. Mark’s and why it matters, the lives that it’s changing, know, and the great contributors to society that it’s producing and just great people with great values, great Catholic values coming out of there. So thank you, thank you for what you do, for all that you’ve done for Catholic education over your career and what you’re continuing to do now.
[00:48:48] And we wish you the best and we look forward to working with Corpus Christi and St. Mark’s to get even more of our students as they graduate to consider going there.
[00:49:00] Dr. Gerry Turcotte: Well, thanks for giving me a chance to talk a bit about the college.
[00:49:03] Troy Van Vliet: Absolutely, yeah and we hope to have you backat some point too for an update, see how things are going.
[00:49:09] Dr. Gerry Turcotte: Thank you so much.
[00:49:10] Troy Van Vliet: Thank you everybody for joining us and we look forward to the next podcast and we are on Spotify, we are on Apple and also YouTube. If you could please be sure to like and if you remember hit the subscribe button too because then you’ll be notified when we’ve got our next show on. Thanks everyone. Have a great day.
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