Chapters:

00:00 – Introduction to Sandra Marshall and Her Role
02:22 – From Public School Teacher to Catholic Educator
04:12 – Answering the Call to Serve in Catholic Education
06:35 – What Makes CISVA Schools So Special
08:21 – The Heart of the Superintendent’s Mission
10:04 – The Realities of Funding Catholic Schools
12:14 – Keeping Catholic Education Affordable for Families
15:20 – Supporting Teachers and Closing the Pay Gap
18:05 – Why Catholic Schools Are Worth the Investment
20:17 – Navigating Seismic Upgrades and Facility Challenges
23:10 – Strengthening Parish and School Connections
25:54 – A Hopeful Vision for the Future of Catholic Education
28:12 – The Importance of Faith in Daily School Life
30:44 – Encouraging Unity Across the Catholic School System
32:55 – Building a Legacy of Catholic Leadership
34:48 – Final Reflections on Leadership and Service

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In this episode of Catholic Education Matters, host Troy Van Vliet chats with Sandra Marshall – the Superintendent of the Catholic Independent Schools of the Vancouver Archdiocese (CISVA). Sandra shares her inspiring journey from public school teacher to leader of 46 Catholic schools across the region. With over 35 years of experience in Catholic education, Sandra reflects on the deep sense of mission and service that has guided her through roles as teacher, principal, associate superintendent, and now superintendent. She discusses key challenges facing Catholic schools today, including limited government funding, the need for seismic upgrades, teacher recruitment, and keeping tuition affordable for families. Sandra emphasizes the importance of ensuring that every child has access to a quality, faith-filled education regardless of financial background, and she highlights the critical role that Catholic schools play in building community, evangelizing, and forming students in both intellect and faith. She also shares her vision for stronger integration between schools and parishes to foster a unified and vibrant Catholic identity across the archdiocese.

Transcript:

[00:00:00] Intro: Welcome to Catholic Education Matters, the podcast that celebrates the beauty of Catholic education, highlighting excellence in academics, athletics, and the transformative power of faith. Join us as we share the stories of those making a lasting impact on Catholic education. Let’s begin.
[00:00:25] Troy Van Vliet: Good afternoon everybody and thank you for joining us here for Catholic Education Matters. My name is Troy VanVliet and I am with St. John Paul II Academy Foundation as the board chair and today I am really excited to have with us Sandra Marshall from the CISVA. CISVA standing for the Catholic Independent Schools of the Vancouver Archdiocese. That’s a mouthful.
[00:00:48] Sandra Marshall: Right, or CISVA.
[00:00:49] Troy Van Vliet: Or CISVA, yes. Sandra is the superintendent of CISVA. So, for the last couple years.
[00:00:59] Sandra Marshall: A year and a half now.
[00:01:01] Troy Van Vliet: Okay, year and a half. So, welcome Sandra. Can’t wait to have a chat with you about what you do and let everybody know a little bit more about Catholic education. And to start out, tell us a little bit more about how long have you been with CISVA for?
[00:01:14] Sandra Marshall: Well, I’ve been with the CISVA since 1990. So do the math. What’s that? Thirty five years? Long time.
[00:01:23] Troy Van Vliet: It’s a good run.
[00:01:24] Sandra Marshall: Yeah. I mean, I was thinking of actually because you kind of pointed out you wanted to hear about my journey within the CISVA. So as I was thinking about that, I thought what brought me to the CISVA, which could resonate with other people out there. Because I began my career a long time ago, actually in the 70s, as a public school teacher. So I taught in Richmond Public and decided once our children started coming, I wanted to stay at home. So I did that for thirteen years. And so when I was ready to come back to teaching, I actually didn’t know too much about the Catholic schools in Vancouver.
[00:02:05] Public school teaching back then, you could actually say Our Father every morning, a Bible reading. I don’t know if people actually know that. So by the eighties, that was discontinued. And in the eighties, again, while I was at home with our three sons and our oldest son was ready to go into kindergarten, was doing a bit of homework, you know, where do we want to send him and thinking public school. And my next door neighbor just happened to be out in her backyard one day, as was I.
[00:02:34] And over the back fence, she was telling me about this wonderful Catholic elementary school in Ladner. I live in Tawson. Hadn’t even thought of that. So I always think about that conversation with Mary, and what a good name, over the back fence that actually brought me to the CIS VA. So started out as a parent.
[00:02:54] All of our sons then followed our oldest into Sacred Heart. And by the time our oldest, I was ready to go back. He was in grade seven, youngest now in kindergarten, ready to go back to teach. Because my husband kept saying, You’re to go back to work one day, dear? And I felt at that point it was the right time to go as our youngest was then going into kindergarten.
[00:03:17] And as, you know, kind of the Holy Spirit at work, there was a teaching position at that school.
[00:03:24] Troy Van Vliet: At Sacred
[00:03:25] Sandra Marshall: At Sacred Heart. So I actually taught two of our three sons while I was there, which was amazing, you know, to be the mom and the teacher. So we kind of went off to work together every morning. And then they left me when they went off to high school and they continued to St. Pat’s Regional, which was actually two buses and a walk.
[00:03:44] So we’re talking pretty well an hour and a half each way. But we were so committed to Catholic education at that point that there was question that they would continue through to grade 12 in one of our Catholic high schools. So, my career started out as a grade seven teacher at that school. And then at some point decided I wanted to be a principal. So I would say probably nine of the best years of my life was spent at St. Mary’s Elementary in Vancouver as the principal there. And so at that point, we’re talking 02/2003, went to the superintendent’s office. So if you’re doing the math, that’s about twenty years now. I always thought I could never stay in a job, maybe the same grade level, same school for maybe more than, you know, five, eight years. So why have I did I last eighteen years?
[00:04:39] That’s a good question. I just found that no two years were ever alike. There was just always new challenges and excitement of serving our 46 schools. I was in the role of Associate Superintendent of Ed Services. So, I figured I had the best job of all because I got to plan all the professional development for our staff, principals, teachers, even education committee members, pastors.
[00:05:05] It was a great job. So, I actually went to retire in 2022. So, retirement was the plan. My husband had retired the year before and I was going to join him. And I don’t know about that time I saw a movie.
[00:05:19] It was an Oscar winner that year. Everything Everywhere All At Once. I don’t know if you’ve seen that movie. Haven’t. I haven’t.
[00:05:25] Well, the main character, Evelyn, is kind of living in two universes simultaneously. And I felt a bit like that when I took this position again after a couple of months of preparing for retirement, then did apply for superintendent, feeling that I was being led a bit by the Holy Spirit.
[00:05:46] Troy Van Vliet: And
[00:05:47] Sandra Marshall: so I’ve been in this job for a year and a half. But I feel that somewhere out there, Sandra Marshall might also be enjoying her retirement. And people ask me, I’d say the thing that surprised me the most about being a superintendent after being in the office for so many years, thinking that maybe there wouldn’t be any surprises, is that I actually feel like a principal again. I feel like kind of the principal of principals of our 46 schools. So, it’s bringing me a lot of joy.
[00:06:19] Don’t know, none of us know what next week, next month, next year holds. But I’d say for now, I feel like I’m in the right place and doing what I can to support our schools.
[00:06:31] Troy Van Vliet: Yeah. So that’s amazing. So I
[00:06:33] Sandra Marshall: didn’t I was a mouthful.
[00:06:34] Troy Van Vliet: Sorry, Troy. No, that’s fantastic. I know. It’s really refreshing to hear your whole journey in terms of in Catholic education starting elementary school, high school. No, you didn’t.
[00:06:45] Yes. No, no, no. It was elementary. Elementary all the way up.
[00:06:47] Sandra Marshall: And then And as a parent and now a grandparent.
[00:06:51] Troy Van Vliet: Yeah.
[00:06:51] Sandra Marshall: Actually, a grandchild in one of our schools. Holy Cross in Burnaby. I know that feels like a shameless plug for some of our schools. No, no. They’re all they’re all special.
[00:07:03]Troy Van Vliet: This this whole podcast is a shameless plug for Catholic education. Good.
[00:07:08] Sandra Marshall: Well, love the title, Why Catholic Education Matters. So, don’t get me started.
[00:07:12] Troy Van Vliet: It does. Well, matters
[00:07:14] Sandra Marshall: and the
[00:07:15] Troy Van Vliet: different matters that arise because there are so many different aspects, so many wonderful things to talk about and there’s so many challenges as well. And you’re the position, the overseer of all the Catholic schools because there’s over 50 in total.
[00:07:31] Sandra Marshall: 46 plus six affiliates.
[00:07:33] Troy Van Vliet: That’s what I meant. Including the affiliate schools too as well.
[00:07:36] Sandra Marshall: Of course, we don’t have any governance authority over the six affiliates. For me, it’s our 46 CISVA. 40 elementary, six high schools.
[00:07:46] Troy Van Vliet: So we still work together. We sure do.
[00:07:49] Sandra Marshall: We have principals meetings monthly and often the principals of the affiliate schools join our And yes, we do look at ourselves as one big happy Catholic family on a good day.
[00:08:02] Troy Van Vliet: Maybe we’ll talk about that just for a second. So, the affiliate schools. Yes. What defines an affiliate school? Why are they there?
[00:08:10] Sandra Marshall: Well, I’m learning because each of the affiliate schools, do you want me to name them? So St. Thomas More, Little Flower Academy, Vancouver College, St. John Paul II Academy, JP II, and TLA.
[00:08:25] Troy Van Vliet: TLA? Yes.
[00:08:26] Sandra Marshall: I’m leaving out one. There’s another one. Vancouver College, Little Flower, BC.
[00:08:33] Troy Van Vliet: Okay. Well, we won’t torture you with that.
[00:08:35] Sandra Marshall: No, but I’m going to pay for
[00:08:37] Troy Van Vliet: that. That’s okay.
[00:08:40] Sandra Marshall: Oh, the seminary. Actually, the seminary has a high school and it is considered an affiliate school. So, in 2020, so up till 2020, affiliate schools, congregational schools, number of titles, terms to kind of define those schools.
[00:08:57] Troy Van Vliet: A
[00:08:59] Sandra Marshall: lot of verbal kind of agreements. This is the way you operate as a Catholic school within the archdiocese with the permission of the archbishop. So in 2020, then the superintendent Deacon Henk, along of course with the archbishop, actually put some things in writing. And so they are referred to as affiliate agreements. And they’re actually coming up for renewal by September 20 So ’20 it certainly explains what affiliation with the arch diocese, the archbishop, but also the relationship with CISVA.
[00:09:31] Troy Van Vliet: Yes, exactly. So which is great to talk about right now because there’s a lot of people that have asked, you know, with SJP too as well. It’s like, so what is, are you CISVA school? Are you not a CISVA school? CISVA affiliate school, basically we operate the same way.
[00:09:48] We have a different governance structure the way it’s set up. But other than
[00:10:09] Sandra Marshall: you know, just the right of the parents to make those choices for their children. People can decide that whether it’s a Catholic school and or other independent schools in the province as well.
[00:10:21] Troy Van Vliet: For sure. So speaking of independent schools, just generally speaking, it’s funny our school has a Facebook site and right now it’s open for comments like people can make comments. We’re trying to promote the school more and more and more. Some of the comments we get are a little bit questionable at times and some of them are, oh, this is another elitist school because kids have got to pay tuition to go there. Comments like that or why does the government support independent schools for elites and things like that.
[00:10:57] Know, don’t think it’s a waste of government money. It should be going to the public system. When reality is that the independent schools are a relief on the government’s spend.
[00:11:08] Sandra Marshall: Save money. Save
[00:11:09] Troy Van Vliet: money. 50%. Now that’s just the operational side, the day to day operational side of the school that has got nothing to do with the infrastructure of
[00:11:18] Sandra Marshall: the school
[00:11:18] Troy Van Vliet: in payment. We have over a $100,000,000 project that we’re putting together with SJP2 right now under construction.
[00:11:27] Sandra Marshall: Take a deep breath.
[00:11:28] Troy Van Vliet: And that the government pays nothing for. So they didn’t have to buy the land, don’t they have to build the building, they don’t have to maintain the building, they don’t do any of that and they give 50% of what a public school would operate on as towards our operations annually. So this nets out the government, which at the end of the day is our taxpayer. It’s a positive net benefit for the public.
[00:11:54] Sandra Marshall: And FISA, the Federation of Independent Schools Association, which actually is located in our office, in our building here at JP2 Pastoral Centre.
[00:12:04] Troy Van Vliet: Didn’t know that.
[00:12:05] Sandra Marshall: It’d be great to have a conversation with Sean Chisholm, president of FISA. They do such good work in that realm of you know, independent schools, being an advocate with Ministry of Education and childcare. But it’s interesting in terms of monies for capital. I think about how the ministry is now providing funds for childcare centres that happen to be in independent schools. And I’m wondering if that might be an area we can exert some pressure.
[00:12:37] Well, you’re paying for part of an infrastructure for childcare. Why not for a K to 12? So that might be an area that we could pursue.
[00:12:45] Troy Van Vliet: Could be. Now is there, to be quite frank, like we have a little bit more leeway with I mean we teach the BC curriculum.
[00:12:54] Sandra Marshall: Yes.
[00:12:57] Troy Van Vliet: But we kind of have a little bit more leeway as to how the schools operate and our policies and what have you being an independent school. The more we rely on government funding, may we potentially be giving up some of that autonomy?
[00:13:14] Sandra Marshall: Well, that’s always the fear of exceeding the 50%. Now you realize some of the and we all have our pet peeves, our triggers. I hate independent schools referred to as private schools. We are independent schools. There are three sixty four independent schools in the province of BC.
[00:13:31] So in terms of FISA, the federation, they have most the majority of independent schools are in FISA, not all. And so in terms of groups of schools, we’re a group one, we get 50%. A group two school would get 35%. So why that? Because they spend more than the public school in that district would spend.
[00:13:54] So we always have to be aware of our schools are located in 14 different public school districts. So we need to be aware of what are the schools spending in relationship to those public schools. And we’re always below. Like we can actually operate quite fiscally responsible, you know, compared to the public schools. So we’re pretty secure.
[00:14:15] But you’re right. You know, maybe for a while I thought that might be a myth. So why can’t we get sixty, seventy five, 80%? But I keep hearing, you know, be wary of that, that if we do get more with some of the resource, for example, the SOGI resource used in a public school, that is our choice to use it or not. Of course, in CISVA, we choose not to.
[00:14:40] We have our own human growth and development resource that we use with our schools in keeping with our teachings. So we certainly need to have something for our students. We’re aware of that, but from a faith perspective. So I’d agree. I think I went off a bit there.
[00:14:56] But definitely to that understanding that if we keep it at 50, it does afford us that opportunity. And yes, as a Group one school, we’re evaluated. I mean, two years we have a monitoring inspection. You probably know that. And every six years a full out we call external and they’re absolutely looking at that we are covering the K-twelve BC curriculum.
[00:15:20] But we can teach it from our faith perspective.
[00:15:22] Troy Van Vliet: Yes, yes. And we just went through that six year one. And Andrea got tortured with that right when she came in.
[00:15:28] Sandra Marshall: Yeah, it’s a lot of work. I mean, two years. I think within six years is only two years you would not have ministry looking into everything
[00:15:39] Troy Van Vliet: within We’re the doing it all, but you have to be able to show it all. And that’s where all the work comes in.
[00:15:44] Sandra Marshall: And I’ve actually heard that if we don’t teach the curriculum from the faith perspective, then why do we exist? So that is something that we really need to continue to do.
[00:15:55] Troy Van Vliet: Yeah. And to hang on to that. I know in Alberta, well, first of all, I believe you can divert your property taxes. You can say it can go to the Catholic school system or it can go to the public school system. You can choose depending on where your kids are going to school, I would imagine.
[00:16:14] And there it is a 100 funded, the operating. I don’t know if the infrastructure is there. Do you
[00:16:18] Sandra Marshall: know? I thought capital was as well. But I guess we’ll find out when Archbishop Smith arrives.
[00:16:24] Troy Van Vliet: Yes, exactly.
[00:16:25] Sandra Marshall: I had a chance last Friday to chat. I mean I was trying to capture everything about CISVA in, you know, twenty minutes. And there’s a lot to learn because I’ve known from people who have come from Alberta, it’s very much apples and oranges in terms of our structure, our governance and the funding. We’re actually very different from the rest of Canada. Maybe the Maritimes, like there are provinces who have lost the funding.
[00:16:54] Newfoundland for one.
[00:16:56] Troy Van Vliet: Lost all the funding? Yeah. Wow. Maybe they don’t have a school shortage like we do here. Think It’s been suicide here for the government to do that.
[00:17:03] I know.
[00:17:05] Sandra Marshall: There’s been certainly during my career the threat of that. And I remember one, it seemed like it was a Good Friday, how appropriate the day that there was, you know, it looked like our funding was just going to be take, well, maybe not entirely, but a good percentage of it. And there was a massive letter writing campaign from parents and definitely the math. You know, like you say, there is a saving. You get to keep that money and you don’t have the children to educate.
[00:17:35] So it seems like a good deal to me.
[00:17:37] Troy Van Vliet: Yeah, totally. And not only are we paying the tuition separately as a parent, you know, you’re paying the tuition, which taxpayers are not paying the tuition. There’s a cost to run schools whether it’s public or private, it doesn’t matter. There’s a cost to run the school, so it’s got to be paid for. So you’re saving that and yet you’re still paying your property taxes in the area.
[00:18:00] That’s going towards the public schools.
[00:18:02] Sandra Marshall: You ever thought of being a politician, Troy?
[00:18:05] Troy Van Vliet: Well, it needs to be explained because people don’t We know
[00:18:08] Sandra Marshall: need good people stepping up leading our province, our country.
[00:18:14] Troy Van Vliet: So that’s something that, yeah, it has been a touchy subject, but you know what? How you explain this to people quite often is one conversation at a time because a lot of times, even when it’s been online on Facebook where people are commenting, it’s like, well, did you know? And they’re like, I had no idea.
[00:18:27] Sandra Marshall: Well, I’ve lost arguments. I mean, I’ve tried with friends who don’t think independent schools should get any funding. That’s fine. If you want to go off and have your own schools, pay for it. And then we talk about the 50%, the math.
[00:18:42] But then the argument is, but you have the best parents. You have parents who really care about their kids and they will pay that money. And it’s hard. Like I know when I was a principal, we had many, many of our families, two jobs each to be able to afford the tuition, which has only grown really leaps and bounds. That does frighten me for the future, the affordability a lot.
[00:19:08] Troy Van Vliet: Let’s talk about that. Affordability? Yeah, because it’s been a huge issue like for us from day one because when we started this model, I mean, goes way back to us talking to Father Galvin when he was still at Star of the Sea when we started this. He had said back then, he said, you got to come up with a different model because we can’t fund another school here the old way, which is why we did this the way we did. He said you got to come up and he gave us some suggestions, which we went with.
[00:19:42] But affordability was one of the things right out of the gate that we were talking about and like And there’s a ditch on both sides of the road with it because we looked at all the other independent schools, whether they were not faith based or other Christian schools that had been built in the South Surrey area since Holy Cross had been built. All these other schools had popped up and thriving, doing well, you know, and we thought we should have done this thirty years ago, this should have been done a long time ago because our students from our elementary schools are ending up in another faith based school or secular school just because there’s no other place to go. There’s not another Catholic school close by and Holy Cross is bursting at the seams, you know, things such as that. But those other schools, independent schools, their tuitions were much higher. It’s like, why is this?
[00:20:43] Well, they don’t have parishes funding them and topping things up and trying to keep things down. That was one of them. And it’s like it wasn’t out of greed. It’s just this is how much it costs to run a school. You know, it’s not like, you know, somebody’s getting rich off of this.
[00:21:01] It’s like these are same thing. Are non charitable organizations that are running a school and not only just the cost of running the school on a month to month process, but planning for the future. So and what I mean by that, you’ve got to be able to put some money away for fixing the roof, doing an addition, or fixing the foundation or updating the alarm system or whatever it is or seismically upgrading the school as needed down the road. And what ends up happening is when all these things are needed or major renovations or a rebuild is needed and a lot of the schools end up we don’t have any money to do that. And that’s because we’ve just been running on this, trying to keep the tuitions as low as possible.
[00:21:53] And there’s a balance between the two. It’s like, well, we need to plan for the future and in order to plan for the future, we’re all paying for that today in terms of being able to put some money away. So there’s this much for tuition, which mostly goes towards teacher salaries, what have you, and then there’s this much, you know, for upkeep in the building and then there’s this much for our future plans. We have to have that in there. So I argued that our tuitions were too low, especially in comparison to some of the other, you know, independent
[00:22:26] Sandra Marshall: schools. Absolutely.
[00:22:27] Troy Van Vliet: And now that doesn’t mean families get tossed aside. That’s not our Catholic way of doing things, you know. I quite often said we invented that term social justice, you know, as Catholics. So we don’t want to leave anybody behind. So therefore we have strong bursaries in place to help the families that can’t either pay the whole tuition or sometimes can’t pay any.
[00:22:55] You know, we’ve been encouraging. Gonna have probably starting in September, we will have the highest tuition in BC in the Catholic school system or right up there with the highest. And yet we’re saying if you can afford it or if you can’t afford all of it, come anyway. Apply anyway. We want to have you.
[00:23:16] We don’t want that to be this deterrent. But it doesn’t mean that the families that can afford to pay shouldn’t pay. We can’t do everything to the lowest common denominator. That would be free.
[00:23:27] Sandra Marshall: Well, sometimes there’s the sliding scale. The conversation with the pastor. What can you afford? I remember those conversations would happen with the pastor of my school and for what duration. Because really to deny, you know, a Catholic family, their children to go to a Catholic school.
[00:23:45] I mean,
[00:23:46] Troy Van Vliet: it’s great, especially crazy when it’s the Catholic community that built it, that paid for it. Right. You know, and it’s like, well, we paid for it. We’ve been, you know, tidying constantly whatever we can, but we can’t go, you know, because we can’t afford it. It’s like, well, no, that’s not how it works here, but you do have to apply.
[00:24:03] You do have to, you know, we have a system separate. It’s Apple Financial, so it’s an online and it’s confidential. So, you know, nobody’s looking at your it’s an off-site program that’s looking at your financial situation and they’ll tell you. They tell us, yes, this family can afford can’t afford anything or you know should be able to afford 50% or something along those lines.
[00:24:28] Sandra Marshall: Definitely in the future. I mean, one of our priorities is sustainability. So we’re looking at personnel, teacher shortage in the province, Lots more teachers on letters of permission than we’ve ever seen before. Of course, we want good Catholic, good teachers added to it. Also, salaries to all of those things that go along with looking after your personnel and paying people fair wages.
[00:24:58] And then, of course, the infrastructure, as you said, where’s that money going to come from? So definitely huge challenges ahead. Sitting here, don’t have any answers, but we’re going to figure it out together. I believe that. I’m positive about that.
[00:25:13] I know we have indicated some of our schools that need some help with that. We’re having some meetings. Seismic is a big concern.
[00:25:23] Troy Van Vliet: Yeah.
[00:25:23] Sandra Marshall: We all had a bit of a wake up call on February 21. I’m glad it was, you know, the size of earthquake it was. Yeah. Think for people that might have been dragging their heels and thinking, well, we’ll put it off for another day. That day is now and we do need to look at that.
[00:25:41] Know, there are rebuilding for sure would be lovely, but maybe some amalgamation schools coming together and maybe looking at it that way.
[00:25:50] Troy Van Vliet: For efficiency and just land value wise.
[00:25:54] Sandra Marshall: Mean, a hundred years ago, fifty years ago, where schools were close together, it took a long time to get from A to B. Now, you know, it doesn’t. And maybe it doesn’t make sense. We’re saying not to build a single stream elementary, that in the future they should be double. So do you have the population to sustain that?
[00:26:13] So I feel myself there’s no more exciting time to be with our Catholic schools than there is right now and looking to the future and how we’re going to resolve some of those challenges together.
[00:26:27] Troy Van Vliet: In some ways, I mean for me it might be my finite view of what I’ve been involved with for the last ten years. You’ve been involved with it a lot longer than I have obviously and I’m not an educator, so I’m seeing it from a different side and I’m seeing it a little bit from a marketing, oh I’m seeing from a parent side of course first. I’m seeing it from a bit of a marketing side, a business side and when I’m looking at it I see it as, yeah, okay, well how do we make this great thing better? And I see a bit of a renaissance happening, for lack of a better description, in terms of our Catholic school systems, some changes, some adjustments, teacher salaries, that’s another thing that is being looked at right now. Can you enlighten us on that?
[00:27:19] Sandra Marshall: Well, it’s a work in progress. So, things are happening now because, you know, for the future. So we’ll see. I mean, we’re very aware of what’s happening. I mean, in BC, public school teachers and we want the best people out there for our schools, for our students.
[00:27:40] And so definitely lots of conversations happening. We have what we call a forum where various stakeholders come together, teachers, principals, education committees and pastors to talk about that. So, they’re doing that right now. And we’ll just kind of wait and see where we end up. Definitely being
[00:28:00] Troy Van Vliet: I would talked like to have been in that forum.
[00:28:04] Sandra Marshall: A fly in the wall.
[00:28:04] Troy Van Vliet: Fly in the wall, yeah exactly. Well, I probably would have input too. I have a hard time keeping my mouth closed when
[00:28:10] Sandra Marshall: it comes to stuff like that. And you you said something earlier. I mean, really, you know, the more Catholic education the better. I think our family should grow. I don’t want us just to survive.
[00:28:22] I want us to thrive. Maybe a bit of elephant in the room and this part could be cut out, But I am concerned about our Saint John Bray Buff in Abbotsford and the impact that a JP two will have on that high school. So I’m certainly in lots of conversation with them. I was actually out in Abbotsford the other day just to talk to the pastors and the deanery and like we can’t, you know, open up one school at the expense of another. I think there’s room for all.
[00:28:50] It’s just how that’s going to sort itself out. And, you know, you talk about Holy Cross, There’ll be a blessing very soon for their new addition. Very excited to see what they have there with their classrooms, their new gym. I want to celebrate that for sure. As I drove by, you know, your new school to be the other day.
[00:29:11] It’s like, wow, this is great. But we can’t sacrifice one at the expense of another. So maybe we’re on different sides of the table here. But you know, I know
[00:29:21] Troy Van Vliet: I couldn’t agree more. I couldn’t agree more because we got a call really early on. I’m talking probably ten years ago. Was like, what is St. John Paul’s?
[00:29:30] What are you Well, guys doing
[00:29:32] Sandra Marshall: the location. I would like you closer to Ladner and Tawson. But I did see Silvery at church one Sunday and I think, well, Andrea also came, your principal to talk to Sacred Heart and this, if we can get 10 families, we’ll give you a bus.
[00:29:46] Troy Van Vliet: And we have a bus.
[00:29:47] Sandra Marshall: Did that work?
[00:29:47] Troy Van Vliet: Yes, it did Okay.
[00:29:48] Sandra Marshall: And I explained, I described myself as a mom. They went to St. Pat’s. It took them an hour and a half, two buses and a walk. Probably, you know, if there had been a JP2 Academy, it would have been another choice for us at that time.
[00:30:03] So that’s a good thing. I just, you know, that is something that keeps me awake at
[00:30:09] Troy Van Vliet: night. Yeah, no. And I think this, I think if we can’t and this is my uneducated opinion or thought on this, so bear with me. I think, you know, there’s so many other independent schools that have opened up that are full. What are we not doing right in Abbotsford?
[00:30:33] Because I think the three schools now that we have in the valley on this side of the Fraser or that side of the Fraser
[00:30:41] Sandra Marshall: Elementary you mean?
[00:30:42] Troy Van Vliet: Just the high schools. The three high schools. Need to shore up each other. They have to put a name in Catholic education out in the Fraser Valley that this is the place to go to school and we’ve got three. And we want to be able to support SJB as much as it takes away.
[00:31:09] The advertising and everything that we’re doing right now and the promotions that we’re doing is not just for our school, it’s for Catholic education period. Hence this podcast as well. Right. You know,
[00:31:20] Sandra Marshall: which I like. And that’s how you got me here. If it was to come and promote JP too.
[00:31:25] Troy Van Vliet: Yeah, yeah.
[00:31:26] Sandra Marshall: I mean, I’m promoting it in the sense of, yes, we want Catholic education to thrive in the archdiocese. But Yes. I am worried a bit with Saint Catherine’s and the tug of war. Right? But I mean, have a school seven minutes down the street would be very tempting, know, for parents.
[00:31:41] And I
[00:31:41] Troy Van Vliet: I know Saint Catherine’s a feeder school for SGB
[00:31:44] Sandra Marshall: But we have to deal with the reality. And I’m excited about the future. Think we will be able to overcome and like you say, be a bit of a magnet for Catholic education in the Fraser Valley and just how like I’m hoping there’ll be a whole bunch of Catholic parents out there watching this podcast. And from the bottom of my heart is, again, a mother and a grandmother and a teacher and to me, you want the best for your children. The gift of Catholic education, there’s nothing better.
[00:32:16] It just provides those roots, that foundation that I believe will carry them through life.
[00:32:21] Troy Van Vliet: Yes. I couldn’t agree more, which was kind of leading to our next thing. Why Catholic education? In your opinion, what?
[00:32:29] Sandra Marshall: Well, in keeping with, I mean, I know the stats, like you were talking about challenges. Another one is evangelization. And our families going to Mass on Sunday or our students staying in the church after they graduate, whether it’s grade seven, they’ve been confirmed or after grade 12. That’s something I even had a conversation with a couple of people this morning. We have to continue looking at that and what can we do differently?
[00:32:56] You know, the definition of insanity to continue to do things the same way and expect different results. So it almost feels like, you know, we’re in this box and we’re trying to figure it out and there’s just something out there. And to me, we’ll get there together and certainly with the Holy Spirit. Just feels elusive that if I just reach a little bit further, we’ll find it and we’ll all be better because of it. So, it’s a challenge.
[00:33:27] Hear over and over I go to various deanery meetings and other families aren’t going to church. And it just, okay, now what? What are we going to do, Father? Because it’s us together. And used to talk about a connection between a school and a parish.
[00:33:45] I will never use that word again, connection. And I just said it now. Because we are in the parish. Like you don’t have to connect a school with a parish. The school is part of a parish.
[00:33:56] And even if that’s a group of parishes. Right? So it’s not just one school, one parish. Yeah. It’s more of that and maybe get away from that one school, one parish and look at it more as a group of parishes, like a family of parishes is looking after those schools together because we have 77 parishes in the RCAV, but basically 46 schools.
[00:34:22] So how can we all support Catholic education in the archdiocese? So just think about ways to do that.
[00:34:29] Troy Van Vliet: And not every parish has an elementary school. Right. And I look back on, I went to St. Thomas More in Burnaby, grew up in White Rock and commuted to St. Thomas More.
[00:34:40] I went to a public elementary school, which the difference between public elementary schools and our Catholic elementary schools, I think, are vastly different. Mind you, there wasn’t even one in White Rock when I grew up, so I didn’t really have that option either. But I look back now on the education I got at STM. I value that way more today than I did at that time. And I see that, wow, there was a lot of great foundational things that were instilled in me and even afterwards, even if I would have faded away or not realized it for a while, but then you know what?
[00:35:19] When my wife and I had kids, when we had our first, it was like there was no doubt. Yeah. Like, we are going, okay, which Catholic elementary school is he going go to? So we ended up moving. We were in Vancouver at the time we moved back to White Rock.
[00:35:35] And then it was right after that, oldest daughter is in kindergarten and it was right after that they were like, okay, where is she going go in high school? We started thinking that right away and if Catholic schools don’t keep people in the faith I think they help bring people back to the faith and revert back to the faith because especially when they’re off, they get married, you know, maybe after during college or something people may wonder and think, you know, and we’re leading this selfish narcissistic life and then also you
[00:36:13] Sandra Marshall: have kids
[00:36:13] Troy Van Vliet: and then you’re like, oh a minute. Now we’ve to start thinking about our little ones. And some of these things all of sudden become important again and then you start realizing and you start reverting back to your faith. And then we’ve got them in the school and then you had, like you said, a lot of them are still not going to church. It’s kind of up to us as a parish to start bringing people back and having our parishes more of a and our schools more of a community and building on that.
[00:36:42] It’s tough to do. It’s easy to say. It’s tough to do, but it starts with little one thing at a time. And if we don’t do that because our schools should be helping build the parishes, they shouldn’t be a drain on the parish.
[00:36:54] Sandra Marshall: No, I think it is the future of the exercises, but then I’m biased. I mean, I once heard a great story like if this glass was full of dirty water, it’s clean Troy. You wouldn’t give me dirty water. If you weren’t allowed to dump it out, how would you clean the water? And the answer was you just continue to pour clean water, clean water, clean water into that glass.
[00:37:16] And eventually, maybe it’ll never be 100% clean. But I think, you know, it’s Jesus and the woman at the well, like the living water. And if we continue to add that, like, yeah, great prep programs, you know, a couple hours a week are great for kids in the public system and I would encourage that. But to have a child in that environment of Jesus is the reason from Monday to Friday, from nine to three, I mean, it’s got to do something. One thing also I found out with this job is that I feel like a principal again.
[00:37:52] I’m also having more time to be in schools than ever before. So Wednesday I was in Blessed Sacrament in the morning. Shout out to Blessed Sacrament and Cloverdale in the afternoon. It just reminded me why we exist. To see the students go from classroom to classroom and just see them in that environment, a faith based environment.
[00:38:15] I’m like, those parents have these kids in the right place. And we don’t wake up in the morning with I want my kids to be miserable and have a horrible life and not be happy. We want the best for our children. And yeah, you got to pay for it. I wish it could be.
[00:38:34] Troy Van Vliet: My parents made sacrifices for me as well and for my brother and sister. I was the Catholic educated ones. Kind of went through I have an older brother sister. They went through the system earlier than I did and I guess it wasn’t seen as quite as important. Mind you, we were growing up we didn’t have any Catholic schools.
[00:38:55] So I got to benefit and is there a difference? I’m looking at my brother and sister. Is there a difference between me and them? I don’t know, they’re wonderful people and we all have our own faith journey that we’re going on as well. You know being involved with our new Catholic high school has been a real renewal of my faith, know, just with surrounding myself with more people with the same goals, the same intentions and the same views towards Catholic education and it’s been a real rebirth for me too, which is positive.
[00:39:35] And in our parish we’ve seen quite a boom recently and in Star of the Sea, the elementary school massive demand there.
[00:39:50] Sandra Marshall: Because people will say do more marketing And the danger of that is, I would say most of our well, many, many of our schools have waiting lists. So, you do all that advertising, they go and I’m sorry, there’s no room. And that’s very disheartening. I mean, we do have schools that need more enrollment and hopefully they’re directed there when you go to a school that has a wait list that there is a Catholic school maybe fifteen minutes away that has room. It’s yeah.
[00:40:21] Troy Van Vliet: What I would hope as well is that our new school being located where it is close to St. Catharines, which is single stream. I don’t want to say it’s a beautiful community that they’ve got.
[00:40:34] Sandra Marshall: And it’s full by the way. With a wait list.
[00:40:36] Troy Van Vliet: So, it would be great to see that school double stream one day and growing just due to that demand because people will see, okay, well, hey, there’s a path from here to here and same thing for Cloverdale Catholic. I know it’s a real old building Well
[00:40:55] Sandra Marshall: that’s where I was actually it was yesterday and they got a lot of land. I was looking at all the land.
[00:41:01] Troy Van Vliet: So that’s fantastic. So one day a new school and once again, families see a path, you know, it’s like, well, they can go here, they can go to Holy Cross, can go to SGB or they can go to our school. There’s options there. I think our elementary schools can.
[00:41:19] Sandra Marshall: You don’t have to sell me. Definitely the hope of the future.
[00:41:29] Troy Van Vliet: Let’s talk about teachers for a second if we would. There’s a shortage.
[00:41:34] Sandra Marshall: Yes, definitely.
[00:41:37] Troy Van Vliet: Both.
[00:41:37] Sandra Marshall: Publicly Across and the board, yes.
[00:41:40] Troy Van Vliet: I know one of the challenges that we have is our tuitions on the CISVA pay scale. They’re a little bit less than the public schools.
[00:41:52] Sandra Marshall: Yeah, we’re trying to get back to that. I think by next year we’re kind of going back to the 95% that had been established by Archbishop Exner many years ago and we were falling behind and I think this year and next year could get us back to that Which place
[00:42:14] Troy Van Vliet: is important.
[00:42:15] Sandra Marshall: I mean, you know, I don’t know. We won’t get into is it about salary or not about salary. I mean, we know we live probably the highest cost of living anywhere in Canada and that’s just to live somewhere and buy food and look, you know, it’s very difficult. People make sacrifices. And we know, you know, our teachers really step up.
[00:42:40] I mean, our new teachers come in, they take a Foundations of the Catholic Faith course, also do a retreat called to be teachers. So, we really do look at it as a calling.
[00:42:53] Troy Van Vliet: That’s kind of the philosophy behind the ninety five percent and not 100%. So, for instance, in comparison is that we’re asking for a sacrifice and we’re asking for this to be a calling and if it’s not, it’s not, so to speak.
[00:43:07] Sandra Marshall: I mean, I don’t know if it’s that, you know, black and white that way, that sort of the way it sat from a meeting a long time ago. And then to this day, it’s, you know, and again, as we’re that’s being looked at right now, where we go in the future is still unknown. But we do know that, Catholic social teaching, fair wage.
[00:43:34] Troy Van Vliet: That’s right. The other side.
[00:43:35] Sandra Marshall: Difficult to live in and around Vancouver and people Catholic, you know, have children and look after your children.
[00:43:43] Troy Van Vliet: And we have, I know we’ve come across teachers before too, whether that said, I’d love to teach in the Catholic system, I just can’t take that pain, you know, and we’re already struggling.
[00:43:55] Sandra Marshall: So there’s definitely a tension there. I’m feeling it.
[00:44:00] Troy Van Vliet: Yeah. Well, it’s a question. It’s a very honest question because it gets asked a lot and it’s one of those things it’s like, okay, well we have to see And I know the pension is different. Think our
[00:44:15] Sandra Marshall: Well, it’s not a defined according to your salary. So it wouldn’t be like 80% of your best five years. It’s indexed, I believe is the terminology. So, you know, from my understanding, our younger starting out teachers, by the time they get to a retirement age, it’s pretty comparable.
[00:44:35] Troy Van Vliet: Right.
[00:44:36] Sandra Marshall: Number wise, a defined versus an index.
[00:44:39] Troy Van Vliet: But that’s I was talking to
[00:44:41] Sandra Marshall: Nick We have somebody else in the office who’s gonna ask about was talking
[00:44:43] Troy Van Vliet: to Nick Schneider about that.
[00:44:45] Sandra Marshall: And he’s
[00:44:45] Troy Van Vliet: the one saying, well, it’s outperforming any of
[00:44:47] Sandra Marshall: the public Exactly. Ones as And we have a great leadership team in the office. I mean, we have an office of 17 people for our 46 schools. So we’re very decentralized with some centralization. And I always think there’s a bit of a tension there between the two.
[00:45:09] And we try to get the ballots right and sometimes it goes one way or the other and that isn’t good. But, you know, I was saying to our new archbishop, sometimes our greatest strength is also our greatest weakness. So it’s you know, just that tension.
[00:45:27] Troy Van Vliet: Well, our school’s behalf, I’m so proud to just be affiliated with the CIS VA and I know we rely on everything you guys do here constantly.
[00:45:40] Sandra Marshall: Well, feel originally you were kind of conceived, so to speak, within the CIS VA to get your start and then as a separate society. Would you be a society
[00:45:54] Troy Van Vliet: as Yeah, a society. Well, there’s two
[00:45:57] Sandra Marshall: Foundation So Foundation
[00:46:01] Troy Van Vliet: the society is in charge of running the school and the foundation is completely separate and it is the building and the society is a tenant in the building. So set up that way, of to set up to separate governance and governance rules. And then of course the archdiocese had the land and has helped out also with the structure of the building. So it’s a different financial structure, little different governance structure, but the society is as CISEA as really as we can get it in terms of how it’s operated.
[00:46:39] Sandra Marshall: So when we have the affiliate meeting, is April something, Do you come with the like you’ll be part of that meeting or
[00:46:50] Troy Van Vliet: Yeah, I would imagine. Yeah, I would imagine. Yes.
[00:46:52] Sandra Marshall: So we’ve got a date
[00:46:53] Troy Van Vliet: for that. Because it affects both entities. Right.
[00:46:58] Sandra Marshall: And I did attend your graduation last year.
[00:47:01] Troy Van Vliet: I know Grace to switch your
[00:47:02] Sandra Marshall: presence. That was lovely. There’s something about small.
[00:47:07] Troy Van Vliet: Yes, there is.
[00:47:08] Sandra Marshall: Is lovely. And I know when you grow, there’s something that you lose. But just again to get a start like that and just
[00:47:18] Troy Van Vliet: The kids that started it because right now we have 75 or 73 or something like that kids in the school. There’s only nine graduating this year. It’s gonna be our smallest graduating class. But what a special group.
[00:47:31] Sandra Marshall: Now is your daughter this year?
[00:47:33] Troy Van Vliet: Next year.
[00:47:33] Sandra Marshall: Next year.
[00:47:34] Troy Van Vliet: So she’ll be the first one to graduate first class to graduate from the new campus.
[00:47:38] Sandra Marshall: Okay. So you’re still thinking September 2025?
[00:47:42] Troy Van Vliet: Yeah, has to be. We’ve burnt the ship.
[00:47:46] Sandra Marshall: We’ll be there for the blessing.
[00:47:47] Troy Van Vliet: There might be some construction dust still floating around when we’re open there in September. Absolutely. So well Sandy, this has been fantastic. Thank you.
[00:47:58] Sandra Marshall: Is it over already?
[00:47:59] Troy Van Vliet: No, well we can keep going. I’ve got some time. Was
[00:48:02] Sandra Marshall: hoping half an hour Troy. It’s amazing how time flies when you’re having fun.
[00:48:06] Troy Van Vliet: Yes, absolutely. Keep up the great work. Sandrar, we appreciate everything that you do and what’s done in CISVA. It’s a big job, it’s a big task, it’s a lot of schools to oversee. So, you guys are doing fantastic.
[00:48:21] Coming from me, that’s worth.
[00:48:23] Sandra Marshall: Yeah, well thank you. It’s worth a lot.
[00:48:25] Troy Van Vliet: It’s appreciated. Okay. All right. Thank you. Yeah, and thanks everybody for joining us again here this afternoon for Catholic Education Matters and be sure to like, subscribe and we’re on Spotify, we’re on Apple and of course on YouTube as well.
[00:48:43] So spread the word and share this with your friends. Thanks everybody. Thank you for listening to Catholic Education Matters. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow the podcast on your favorite listening platform, rate it, and also leave a review. Don’t forget to share this episode with your friends and family to help spread the word about the impact of Catholic education. Be sure to listen again.